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Charging the battery with a welding inverter

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I forgot to turn off the lights, the battery died. What to do? I decided to charge with a welding machine. It is connected through an electrolyzer (water + salt + two contacts)


The inverter voltage is 50V at idle, the voltage is constant. Judging by the sparks of 2-3 A., the current is approximately by eye. The more salt and the closer the electrodes, the higher the current.
Charges vigorously, wound up after 40 minutes after a complete discharge (even tidy bulbs did not burn). Now I'm doing a full charge.
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26 comments
Local 0
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Why, under the heading (SUITABLE FOR TOPIC) On this site and in every homemade product no link to Ali works, there is no direct transition! What is wrong with them?
+1
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If you need to urgently charge, then a computer power supply can help. It will recharge a bit, or you can start it, the block protection will be cut down. I saw this, but I could not try.
This welder will not go to start, there is a function of sticking.
This welder has a current of 20 amperes with stabilization, idle 75 volts. It is necessary to closely monitor the current and voltage. For proper charging you need a "balasnik".
An argon welder may be suitable for charging. He has a lower arc voltage and current too.
In general, that our craftsmen just can’t come up with)
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I confess, not attentive ... It seemed, no less, but more than five amperes for the Zhiguli battery ....)))))
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<А для подзаряда аккума ток (импульсный) < 5 А>
Pulse current is evil for the battery!)))) (Do not confuse with cyclic!)
In Soviet memory devices in which there was a pulse mode, the description stated: "Warning! Pulse mode significantly reduces the battery life! Use it only if you need emergency fast charging!"

Valery, "Pulse mode" in the Soviet memory, it is something else. This is an accelerated charging with a LAR current.
I mean - charging imp. (100Hz) from the network (~ 220v) <5A. This is a regular charge. Nothing boils, does not get warm. And it is considered better than charging with direct current and do not need many hours of charge-discharge cycles.This is chemistry.
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And for recharging the battery current (pulse) <5 A

Pulse current is evil for the battery!)))) (Do not confuse with cyclic!)
In Soviet memory devices in which there was a pulse mode, the description stated: "Warning! Pulse mode significantly reduces the battery life! Use it only if you need emergency fast charging!"
And now ... Now they do not warn ... Now it’s the other way round - if he had died faster, so that you would come for a new one!))))
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Battery high voltage at the same current, the battery heats up even more,

Yes, it will not lead to anything if the current is not more than 0.1 of the capacitance ..
.white plaque falls off
"White coating" (sulfates) in this process "dissolves back" ... Only slowly you need ...
And yes ... They do not short-circuit - they are not a conductor ... So, if a neglected case occurs, intensive charge-discharge cycles are needed ... It is for them to crack and sprinkle ...

When charging the battery 14.5 in even when voltage drops as a result charge charge It is charging all the same, it can be seen by the ammeter.

Mosk shame!))))
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Dmitrij,
again indirectly, starting current depends on the capacitance. For 60Ah, it is approximately 500-600A, and for 80 already from 700.

Dmitry, the starting current is related to the capacity, but does not DEPEND. It depends mainly on manufacturing technology !!! Take a traction battery with a huge capacity, and the starting current there will be meager.
Yes, and in ordinary starters, the difference is huge - sellers, in order not to go into details, usually ask: "Do you have a diesel, or a gasoline?"))). In the same "60-ke" currents range from 340 to 700 A .
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Khatul Madan
and together with lead sulfate, spongy lamb is crumbled from the plates and it closes the plates below, when charging, the amount of white deposits is reduced but not always until the end, when the coating becomes coarse-grained, getting rid of charging becomes problematic, then either special processing of the plates for a long time to list, or new Battery
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"the white plaque from the plates falls and closes them from the bottom"
White plaque is just an insulator, which reduces the active area of ​​the plates and increases the internal resistance of the battery. The active layer is crumbling, and yes, it can really close the plates. I will not write about the fight against sulfation; Google will help.
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The welding machine (as well as the generator, inverter) has a steeply falling current-voltage characteristic, that is, at zero current (the arc does not burn) we have an open-circuit voltage (50 V, stable ignition of the arc), and with a short circuit (U = 0), the current a bit more working. The voltage of a burning arc is 15-30 V, depending on the length of the arc. So if the inverter is directly connected to the battery, then the charging current will be approximately equal to the set welding current.
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Valery
"-But if a voltage higher than 14.5 volts is applied to the same circuit, the electrical appliances of the car will" fall in! ")))."
We are no matter how contradictory to the fact that when charging the battery, the voltage on it drops until it is charged, so why then worry about the car’s devices, we ask, so we safely give 1000 V and do not blink an eye.
When the battery is charged at 14.5 V, even when the voltage drops as a result of the load of the charge, it will charge anyway, this can be seen by the ammeter. High voltage on the battery at the same current causes the battery to heat up even more, white plaque from the plates falls off and closes them from below, it is weakly expressed in sovereign batteries, there is more room for falling from below
Author 0
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again indirectly, starting current depends on the capacitance. For 60Ah, it is approximately 500-600A, and for 80 already from 700.
+2
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And most importantly, I wanted to say that voltage and current, although they depend on each other, are different things that are always confused.

To such "confusers" (who just hurt when they went through physics)))), figuratively explaining, I always compare electric current with water current !!! Both that, and another - flows (from here and "current"). Voltage is “flow rate”, current is “channel size”.))) That’s why high voltage (a jet from a karcher) hurts, and kills a large current (tsunami). And these things are interconnected - you won’t even notice a couple of liters of water at low speed, but if they arrive at the speed of the "Karcher stream" - they will kill you !!!
Battery is a bucket! )))) Its size is capacity !! But the starting current is the diameter of the drain cock !!! (The most important characteristic! And not the capacity, as everyone thinks !!! They say "I'll take it harder - 80-ku! It will be better to twist! ... But it is not" better ", it will just be able to twist longer !!! (What's wrong important) Because you can have not a bucket, but a tank, but a lot of water will not squeeze through a thin faucet at once !!!! But, will your generator be able to constantly keep this tank full ??? Because if not, then very soon due to sulfation, it will turn into a bucket))))
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If you need a battery life of 15 years, then the method is not suitable. But I can’t drive in the same car for so many years))

Not. I need the usual battery life - 5-6 years for the cheapest. But only so that he, when he is five years old, does not sit down in two hours, when the car is muffled with light !! Or a night on the emergency gang !!!
And here it is already normal for us - people just kill the tank, and then "oh-oh-oh-oh !!! It started badly and I cased the battery !!!" Meanwhile, ANY normal battery, if you twist the starter, as expected, for 10 seconds maximum, must perform (cheerfully !!!) this operation in a row once, at least fifty !!!! And he can do it !!! Until they start to scoff at him!))))
I advise you to open banks after this and enjoy the white color of sulfate on the plates!)))))
Author 0
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If it doesn’t fall directly, it's a welder! If it fell during short circuit, we could not cook anything. Without a resistor, it will immediately fry the battery.
I thought as a resistor to first put the halogen on 12V, but it will burn from 50V? So I decided to put an electrolyzer.
Author 0
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Valery, either you or someone really scared you, or you talk about batteries that you did 20 years ago. I had a battery (worthless for today's standards, cheap). I charged it haphazardly, haphazardly, poured ordinary water instead of a distiller (it was necessary ...). Charged with an alternating current. He was spinning a shorted starter for me, and he spent a lot of time. Recharged, just 15 just discharged into the trash !!

By your standards, he would have to die in such conditions after the third charge. But he worked for 5 years! And he worked on, but it leaked out, I was just too lazy to buy electrolyte and I turned it over for scrap.

The charging method described above is of course emergency. If you need a battery life of 15 years, then the method is not suitable. But I can’t drive in the same car for so many years))

If you lower it below 14 Volts, the generator’s side will not “overtake” the battery’s battery (Do not forget that the battery in the car is also a voltage source with the same connection.) And there will simply be no charge!

It is not true, it will be, I charged the battery from a 5 and 9V power supply, it is charging. I don’t know what state it was, but it was enough to start the engine.
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It was about the voltage drop that I wanted to say. Even if you connect the welder directly to the battery, the voltage on it will be 12-13 volts, but the current value will fly into space, and the electrolyzer in your case plays the role of a limiting resistor that reduces current. And most importantly, I wanted to say that voltage and current, although they depend on each other, are different things that are always confused. With a single voltage of 10,000 volts 90 milliamps, it will not be possible to light a 12-volt 50-watt bulb, and it it won’t even burn out, although if you multiply volts and amperes of power enough.Well, Valery further wrote about the modes in great detail, I just want to add an example when we charge the battery with a simple device in which only the voltage is regulated (and, accordingly, the current), we set the value at which the current corresponds to 0.1C. Further, during the charging process, the current drops, and the voltage rises.
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It was a long time ago, I made a starter and charger for the customer for Zhiguli (from 220v). We have decent winter frosts here, and he needed a car. I worked part-time. And the garage is not heated. Therefore, to help the accumulator, the Launcher was briefly added. Decent currents. And for recharging the battery current (pulse) <5 A
+2
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I read the comments ... I'm sorry, but ... ALL IS NOT AT ALL RIGHTS !!! ))))
Do not confuse voltage with current ... That's right, only ...
Do not confuse CHARGING METHODS !!!
They, without harm to the battery, there are two:
1. A constant current value.
2. Constant voltage value.
The first method is rarely used due to difficulty. Expensive equipment is needed that will "adjust" the current during charging. (Well ... or sit slowly and rotate the handle gently without taking your eyes off the ammeter))))
In the second method, it is necessary to fix the voltage - it must be constanta throughout the entire charging process! AT THE BEGINNING of charging (as correctly noted), the current should not exceed 10% of the capacity - these are the values ​​that are safe for the battery. During charging, the internal resistance of the battery rises, respectively, at voltage = constanta, the current drops. In a car, just such a process takes place. If you lower it below 14 Volts, the generator’s side will not “overtake” the battery’s battery (Do not forget that the battery in the car is also a voltage source with the same connection.) And there will simply be no charge!
But if a voltage higher than 14.5 Volts is applied to the same circuit, the car’s electrical appliances will “crumble” already!))) And therefore (and only because of this) it is no longer possible. And here the manufacturers put precisely such values ​​into the characteristics of the generator - the voltage of 14.5 Volts (the maximum permissible for circuits) is also determined by the dependence of the current on the voltage - if you raise it, then the generator (specially calculated) will simply give more than 10 % of capacity current !!! And the battery will "sprinkle".
For the battery, the voltage is not scary! And, if the stationary charger has different values ​​of its resistance, then at the same currents (for example, at 5 Amperes), the auto-generator "keeps its legitimate 14.5", then the charger can give 20 or more !!! (Measure at your leisure when you charge. Chargers are never equipped with a voltmeter at the output simply because this value is not important !!!)))). And there’s nothing wrong with that !!!
Only now, Dmitry ... It is impossible to determine the current "by eye, judging by the sparks"!)))). And you can not limit it to electrolysis - it (along with the elastic, naturally) will "swim" strongly !!! And you won’t get a single “constant”! As a result, the plates will either “sprinkle”, and if not, you will sulfonate them strongly !!!
And, by the way, after a "deep discharge" to "wake up" the battery with needy minuscule currents a week !!! And so at one time you have already sulfonated packages of plates and “bit off” 30 percent of its capacity !!!
Author 0
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Khatul Madan,
Well, the inverter produces 50v at idle. When connecting the battery to its terminals, the voltage is slightly higher than the native battery. What else can there be charging voltage? They are charged even from a 220v network through a diode and an electrolyzer.

The voltage drops under load due to the electrolyzer (resistor).
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Do not confuse the charging current with a voltage drop, 14.7 volts maximum charge voltage. After that, simply decomposition of water will begin, as in an electrolyzer, the intensity of which depends on the charging current.After that, the electrolyte will boil and the plates will crumble. And if you connect 1000v with a current of 10 milliamps, then you have to wait a long time when the battery is charged.
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1000 in UTB you are joking)), I will say what I know, and the charging current is not more than 1/10 but also not less than 1/20 (otherwise to no avail and for a long time) from the battery capacity
Author 0
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That at least 1000V, the main thing is a small current. Under load, the voltage drops to the battery. Already charged, 12.7V after pokatushek. Slightly started bubbling and knocked out
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You are careful with the increased voltage for the battery, it needs no more than 14.5 V for charging, I once also experimented with express charge like that, the electrolyte boiled and the battery itself almost broke, it already overheated, stopped in time))
Author 0
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I heard, but did not try. On the inverter, the protection seems to be like, it does not allow the starter to be twisted. To do this, there must be a welder with a start function.

He turned on the motor from the wipers from the inverter, herachit as a jet))) It will be necessary to try the starter. I did not think that this ancient engine could SO work. There probably 15 thousand revolutions
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I saw how the neighbor launched the Volga as a welder.

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