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The eternal log - saving firewood up to 40%

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Such an idea has been surfing the Internet for a long time - to supply water to the oven, which then turns into steam. Thanks to this approach, energy costs are significantly reduced, but why, no one could explain.



Some argue that water at high temperatures decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen, that is, it begins to burn. However, this process requires very high temperatures, which the furnace simply does not have.

There is also a version that water vapor has a high heat capacity or thermal conductivity, as a result of which the furnace warms up better. Of course, this version has a place to be, but it all depends on the furnace. If the efficiency of the furnace is low, then steam, theoretically, can increase this figure.

Well, the simplest version is that thanks to water, the combustion process slows down, firewood burns longer, the stove manages to warm up better, that is, less heat is passed through the pipe. But here again everything depends on the design of the furnace.

How it works
This log is a piece of pipe with holes, which is heated in the coals of the furnace. When water enters the pipe, it turns into steam and leaves the holes at high speed. Water can be supplied by drip.

Is it a myth or a truth? What do you think about this? Have you tried to make such a log?
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56 comments
+1
Reply To quote A complaint
The temperature in the bath, with the "splashing" of water on the stones almost rises.
Do not be fooled. Profane

The temperature in the bath does not rise when splashing on stones !!! (Provided that it is already close to a hundred). The thermal conductivity of the air simply increases due to vapor saturation!
The profane are those who believe that it rises ... And those who are sure that when the steam comes into contact with an open flame and with hot stones, only the same processes occur! ...
Basil +1
Reply To quote A complaint
The temperature in the bath, with the "splashing" of water on the stones almost rises. Humidity increases, giving the impression that the temperature has increased .. Do not be fooled. Profane.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
It seems to me where there is a positive effect of water (steam), so it’s in a drip burner at the end. but there is a different situation, the reaction of oil and water, when you start to feed water into the combustion area through a dropper, the combustion temperature rises
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes, this gas is obtained in different ways. We will not consider the conversion of methane, we have coal gasification. Without oxygen-vapor pressurization, the gas output will be much less, but it will be.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Quote: Yuri Kazgunov
There is no decomposition of water here, there is synthesis. Google synthesis gas, it is also water gas. Upon contact of steam with hot coal, carbon monoxide + hydrogen (synthesis gas) is formed. Here you have extra fuel.

Googled already. Do you know how the synthesis gas differs from water?
Without decomposing the water into its constituents, you will not in any way force this water gas to form.
Synthesis gas is usually produced differently.
There is also generator gas.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
There is no decomposition of water here, there is synthesis. Google synthesis gas, it is also water gas. Upon contact of steam with hot coal, carbon monoxide + hydrogen (synthesis gas) is formed. Here you have extra fuel.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
You did not know that the cylinder walls have a special coating? In racing cars. Various additives to the fuel itself.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Quote: Andes
In coal-fired boiler rooms, steam is sometimes added to the furnace so that beautiful white smoke comes out of the chimney to create the appearance of good cleaning.
But that soot burns out, the first time I hear.

It burns out. There is a modification of the Butakov furnace, where soot burns out in the furnace. The efficiency of the furnace is increased. The exhaust pipe is clean.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
What kind of catalysts in ICE are we talking about?
0
Reply To quote A complaint
In coal-fired boiler rooms, steam is sometimes added to the furnace so that beautiful white smoke comes out of the chimney to create the appearance of good cleaning.
But that soot burns out, the first time I hear.
+1
Reply To quote A complaint
Quote: pogranec
If you pour water on the stones in the bath, the temperature also rises

The temperature will drop. And no other way.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
to squeeze out more power from the fuel, you need to increase the burning rate. In ICE, these are catalysts. So in this case, water as a reaction accelerator. Rather, its oxygen. It turns out the synthesis gas is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide. No one bothers to gasify the fuel before serving in the internal combustion engine. The car will go on synthesis gas. Consumption is likely to decrease by the amount of added steam, minus the heat loss in the system.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Quote: izar
Perhaps the steam lowers the combustion temperature, thereby shifting the flame to the red range. I think at the same time more infrared radiation is released which additionally heats the walls of the stove. I noticed such a chip in an asphalt plant. The material is heated in a rotating drum. The principle is like a heat gun. If you apply clean diesel fuel to the nozzle, it burns beautifully but does not warm the material well. If you add workings to diesel fuel, it burns poorly with soot, but the material warms up much faster.

Or, as an option, mining burns out at a higher temperature. Try to bring dry superheated steam into the combustion zone - you will be pleasantly surprised. The soot will disappear. Fuelless burning This patent has been tested and works by us.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Perhaps the steam lowers the combustion temperature, thereby shifting the flame to the red range. I think at the same time more infrared radiation is released which additionally heats the walls of the stove. I noticed such a chip in an asphalt plant. The material is heated in a rotating drum. The principle is like a heat gun.If you apply clean diesel fuel to the nozzle, it burns beautifully but does not warm the material well. If you add workings to diesel fuel, it burns poorly with soot, but the material warms up much faster.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
As I understand it, the calorific value of the fuel is quite constant, and the moisture in the tree, which reduces it, is purely proportional to its weight content.
That is, when 10 kg of firewood is burned, so much heat will be released without relatively, long or fast they will burn. Even if there is a process of natural oxidation, and this happens after 500 years, the heat will be released as much as in 2 hours in the stove, with the maximum heat of combustion.
And for good heat removal there are various devices - radiators, hogs, revs.
That is, there can be no savings without turning water into a combustible material. If it is, then there were jambs in the stove, which eliminated in this way. From a gun on sparrows.
Significant savings can be obtained by converting wood fuel into another, with a higher calorific value - with the help of pyrolysis.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
it is not tightly welded, a bunch of holes. In the worst case, it simply fills the stove and everything goes out. In confirmation, I want to remind you that not one of the attempts to create a successfully working steam gun in the entire history has failed.
-1
Reply To quote A complaint
Fans of all kinds of BetaGe, Meyer cells and other things have long been explained that the energy needed to decompose water into oxygen and hydrogen is MORE than the energy that can ultimately be obtained from this gas. So if the effect is, it is not because of this.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
They lived in their house, did exactly the same. There was a coal boiler in the basement, they also drowned with anthracite, bought a truck for the winter and I hollowed it with a puncher after school. Dust and small coal crumbs, which formed a lot during the process, my father mixed with water and laid on top of already hot coal with a layer of about 10 cm, he called it a "fur coat". To the question "what the hell?" father replied that the coal dust dries and grabs the crust, the coal burns as if under a "fur coat". At the same time, he no longer releases energy, he just burns more evenly and for a long time, less heat goes into the pipe and there is enough such filling for the whole night.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
You can burn everything. The only question is temperature. Here you can watch a video of the burner working out with steam. To be more precise, the burner turned out to be universal. Propane, methane, mining .... There is no difference. Unfortunately, we did not yet measure how much heat is released. By consumption: the first designs consumed more gas than regular boiler burners (1.8-2.2 cubic meters per hour), they did not work at all at oil. Now it consumes 0.6 cubic meters per hour of gas or 0.4 liters of waste oil. For obvious reasons, I do not give a description of the design, there are nuances that are not shown in the video. Unfortunately, now I’ve strained with money, so there are no further upgrades yet, but there is an opportunity to reduce another expense.
+2
Reply To quote A complaint
what nafik decomposition, the inhabitants of our site damn it! in order to break the chemical bond, a higher energy density is needed, as for example during electrolysis, and I am silent that this process consumes energy and does not release it. School chemistry.
+3
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes, an ingenious movie, the whole movie went into quotes.
+2
Reply To quote A complaint
- Where from on Plyuk of the sea? Of these, a long time ago they made Luts.
- Sorry, what did you do?
- Fuel, violinist, fuel!

Kin-Dza-Dza!

- Do you have seas on Earth?
- And the sea is .... And the oceans ... And decent people meet! )))) smile
+4
Reply To quote A complaint
Exactly. Proper design of the furnace involves burning fuel with high efficiency and maximum "utilization" of the heat generated. Now we are talking about firewood. We are forced to lose some of the heat by slightly overheating the gases leaving the pipe - so that there is no condensate in the pipe, the rest must settle, preferably in the lower part of the furnace.





Probably the best heat transfer when using water vapor is explained by the unsuccessful design of many furnaces. But along with the positive effect, in the future we have many chances for problems. It is wiser to improve the oven itself, although it is more difficult. Yes, the combustion itself should not be slow, with a lack of air, if we are not talking about gas-generating furnaces, but this is a different story. A soft, even buzz should be heard.

Speaking of the lack of air - there is still a small reserve for extracting heat from firewood - supplying a small amount of heated air to the flame zone, for afterburning volatiles, soot and CO. But here is the problem too - all this works well only in the established combustion mode, and it is quite short for wood-burning stoves. As a result, we come to dances with a tambourine around the valves of the furnace - as an experiment this is interesting, but with daily use it is difficult. Having done and tested many, they refuse - it is better to throw extra logs than sit and control, regulate the process.
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
Combustion in a conventional brick furnace should be as active as possible, with maximum heat generation, with maximum flame. Only in this case the furnace warms up, and in an hour or two.

Yesterday I drowned with pine floorboards, the hells are burning, the stove warms up perfectly. I am drowning with oak and maple, it needs more, paradoxically.

I was at my mother-in-law yesterday, she says I can’t heat it, it's cold ... I arrived, she closed the gate valve and drowns, a house full of smoke. Says I drown from lunch, and it was already evening. Two fires burned down, and the walls were a little warm. Although if you drown normally, "so that it buzzes", it warms up normally.

So long-term burning is relevant only for boilers and other similar equipment with a small heat capacity.
+5
Reply To quote A complaint
And the water heats much fasterthan air. The indicator is determined by the specific heat capacity. This is known to everyone who taught physics at school.

Well, some kind of trend is looming!))))
One I noticed that they are sending to teach physics, mainly those who do not even know it at the school level? )))))).
And here is "faster" to "heat capacity" ???
"Heat capacity" is "more" !!!
And “faster” is about “thermal conductivity”!
+2
Reply To quote A complaint
Words are not a theorist, but practice! The stove, with regular firewood with raw wood, in addition, pretty planted and smacks of, characteristically. Combustion in a relatively large furnace is uncertain - a small volume burns out, and then it goes out. We have to whisper firewood all the time with a poker.
+2
Reply To quote A complaint
To increase the duration of burning, stretching it in time, you can use the "blank under", without a grate. When lowering the temperature in a brick furnace, one should not forget about the temperature of the flue gases at the outlet of the pipe, if it is underestimated, and the risk is very high - competent stoves are designed so that it, the temperature, is slightly more than the minimum, we get creosote in pipe with all the consequences. In addition, soot in the furnace will not be burned, which is also bad and dangerous. Moreover, in theory, water decomposes really, at temperatures of about 1000 degrees, such a temperature, even in furnaces with "high-temperature" combustion, for example, of the same Kuznetsov, is kept only in the middle of the furnace time - and most (ignition and afterburning) it is significantly smaller. Significantly longer high temperatures are held in a brick sauna stove, since they are heated longer, but such stoves are now rare.
-2
Reply To quote A complaint
Specific heat is already the ratio of heat to mass
Q = C x m x (t1-t2)! I tried not to skip physics lessons at school! smile
-2
Reply To quote A complaint
Specific heat is already the ratio of heat to mass. The value is constant for a given substance.
-2
Reply To quote A complaint
The indicator is determined by specific heat
And also a lot!
This is known to everyone who taught physics at school.
smile
-4
Reply To quote A complaint
I will add. In a bath with a dry steam, a tolerable temperature of 105-110 degrees.Splash some water on the stones - and begins to burn! And if you lower your hand in boiling water (100 degrees), then the burn is guaranteed.
In addition, in a stove with the described stray, oxygen is replaced by water vapor, the intensity of combustion decreases, but the fire does not die out, of course, if you do not strangle it yourself, close the blower. So much for saving firewood. Everything is logical)))
0
Reply To quote A complaint
The heat transfer of water is much greater than that of air. And the water heats much faster than air. The indicator is determined by specific heat. This is known to everyone who taught physics at school. Household air is used as a heat insulator. An example is a double-glazed window, or the same polystyrene foam (there is a lot of air in the pores). That’s the whole secret.
Author +10
Reply To quote A complaint
There is no saving in this, although I sometimes throw raw firewood when the stove burns out. But although it’s for, to save dry, which are less than wet xaxa
The burning temperature of raw firewood is low, they burn slowly and the stove does not heat up nichrome, it cools faster than it heats up.
-4
Reply To quote A complaint
You don’t have to go far, at all times significant savings were obtained when the stove was heated mixed with raw firewood.
+8
Reply To quote A complaint
I’m thinking ... Why not just drown the stove with raw firewood instead of these tricks? Why DRY wood? In my opinion, those who believe in the decomposition of water in the furnace into hydrogen and oxygen have their brains decomposed into separate neurons ... How to carry such a blizzard and believe it, they would consult at least, and preferably heat technicians, with stoves.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Leonid Z only there you need to combine brown coal and water, and to get a powerful combustion process, you still need a plasma torch and electricity.
+2
Reply To quote A complaint
It is not a matter of temperature, but chemistry. In the case of coal, water acts as a catalyst. Coal is generally an interesting thing - if, for example, it is watered with diesel fuel, it will not burn at all))
0
Reply To quote A complaint
pogranec there is such a thing, in fact, if something on the sites is easy to manufacture, the effect of economy, low cost, then the number of views goes through the roof. Water on hydrogen and oxygen through the temperature sounds beautiful, but how high it needs
-1
Reply To quote A complaint
In general, this is probably a record. I don’t remember that if the article got so many views so quickly.
+1
Reply To quote A complaint
By the way, the number of those who see decomposition of water into oxygen and hydrogen in the bath exceeded by 2 the number of those who do not see decompositiondrinks
+3
Reply To quote A complaint
53 log views are not so bad. Loves people freebie. Admin Dmitry Paul Lyama probably pay. You can throw pigs in the Canary Islands smoke
+11
Reply To quote A complaint
I think here the effect of temperature increase is subjective, since when water boils (especially in frosty weather, when the humidity is low), the humidity of the hot air in the furnace increases, while a person feels a lot of heat compared to a stove without an “eternal Polen”. When measuring the temperature in an oven with an “eternal log”, it will not only not increase, but also decrease, it will be low until all the water has evaporated, since part of the thermal energy of burning wood is used to heat water, boil it and turn it into steam. And the fact that firewood burns longer is because water vapor displaces oxygen from the furnace, the same effect of slowing down combustion can be obtained by covering the air supply with a damper.

"The version that water vapor has a high heat capacity or thermal conductivity, as a result of which the furnace warms up better."

Yes, water transfers more heat from the wood to the walls of the stove, because it transfers heat better than dry air, but at the same time, the water evaporates from the walls and takes this heat back, taking it to the chimney
+3
Reply To quote A complaint
A hatchet? !!! And the hammer?
They forgot about the smoking pipe! smile
Author +6
Reply To quote A complaint
the first time I hear) We have taken from birch, linden, hazel. But what, so strong straight? The apple tree is enough, the storms were this year, a lot broke.
+8
Reply To quote A complaint
I’m burning a fresh apple tree, burning,

Barbarian!!
Apple tree to burn! ... Well think of it !!! )))
A hatchet? !!! A "hammer"?)))) The best wood for them is hard to come up with !!!
And on the machine to grind rolling pins, file handles? ... Then from the needles then ??? ))))
Author -4
Reply To quote A complaint
I recalled such a life experience - I poured water into a carburetor engine. There was soot in the engine, it was not jammed, it worked without spark plugs, like a diesel engine, at detonations)))
So, I read that you can clean it with water. He made medium turns and began to pour water. You know, you poured a steady stream from a half-liter can directly into the carburetor, into the main diffuser. So the speed was falling, but the engine was working without problems. Nitsche did not flood any candles. The engine eventually cleared up.

So, the temperature of gasoline combustion is how many degrees in the pots? Google says in the region of 1000-1100 degrees. A dry oak burns to 900 degrees. So, "burning water" in the engine was not observed, because the speed did not grow.
And the steam did not help the engine spin faster. On the contrary, fuel burned at a lower temperature.
+15
Reply To quote A complaint
As I understand it, at a higher temperature, and the burnout time of the fuel
Maybe I’ll carry complete nonsense now, but I think that water - steam somewhat reduces the temperature in the stove, thereby prolonging the combustion time of a certain amount of firewood, here’s your saving - the log burns longer in a humid environment! But, I repeat, these are just my fantasies on a given topic! smile
Author +15
Reply To quote A complaint
and why is there no effect when burning raw firewood? I’m burning a fresh apple tree, burning, but there is no heat
+3
Reply To quote A complaint
It looks like a way for Germans to produce hydrogen to pump balloons during the First World War. There, steam to produce hydrogen was run through hot iron shavings - iron passed into oxide, releasing hydrogen. In a "log" when steam passes through red-hot holes in an iron pipe, perhaps the same thing happens ..
+5
Reply To quote A complaint
need a torn stove and the floor of the house as a result of experiments, try it!

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