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Automatic circuit breaker



One late autumn evening, I broke into the country (tired of my wife, probably). He turned on the switch and the light in the living room - a bright flash, and all the lamps (ordinary incandescent) burned out. I went to look for a multimeter. Bah, I have 285 V in my network! And if "0" were burned out at the substation, all 380 V would be mine! What would happen if I didn’t turn off the switch and leave the refrigerator or TV plugged in? In the best case, they would have burned down. And so a fire could occur due to a short circuit. So he sat all evening by candlelight and ate canned food warmed up on a Bumblebee (yes, I still have such a device). The problem somehow needs to be solved.

I arrived in the city the next day. I knew that there were devices that cut down the network with increasing voltage. I did not like them at the cost of up to 6,000 rubles. (the price depends on what current they are designed for). In addition, the relay is their executing element - my electronics in the country, while they will turn off the energy.

And if you make yourself such a device based on a high-current triac? I rummaged through the net and found a suitable scheme. I did not like only that the KU208G triac was used as a key. They are very capricious in work, and in terms of power they do not suit me. I decided to replace it with BT 139-800E.127 (it is inexpensive and reliable). At the same time, you need to change the control transistor to ST13003 (which is more suitable for the parameters) and the zener diode to 1N5349BRLG. The resistance power R1 must be increased to 5 W, and the diode VD2 should be changed to 1N5408. Then you can squeeze about 10 kW, which is what I need.

The key element is the triac VS1, the control electrode of which transistor VT1 is supplied with a negative voltage. Resistor R5 is used to limit the current. The reference and control voltages are removed from the parametric stabilizer VD1-R1-C1. In a chain with it is a diode VD2, which supplies the control voltage, which varies depending on the voltage in the network.

When the voltage in the network (and, accordingly, on the resistive divider R3-R4-C2) reduces the emitter current of the transistor to zero, the triac closes. Positive feedback, built on the R7-VD3 chain, provides reliable switching of the transistor. The current through feedback is summed with the current at resistor R3, increasing the voltage at the divider R3-R4-C2. This reliably turns off the transistor and, of course, the triac.

The value of the resistor R3 determines the trip voltage. The value of resistor R7 is the spread between on and off.
To indicate the operating mode at the input and at the output, I decided to put two LED chains. The output chain will also load the triac at idle (then R6 can be excluded).

What is necessary:
1. Soldering iron.
2. A set of electronic components + printed circuit board.
3. The radiator for the triac.
4. Housing for the product.
5. LATR to configure the circuit.
6. Screwdriver, tweezers, scalpel, side cutters.
7. The drill.
8. Multimeter.

Missing (5-watt resistor R1 and triac VS1) I bought in the store "Chip and Dip" for 50 rubles. The remaining parts were in stock. To cool the triac used heatsink HS 304-50. Its area is more than enough. Yes, I bought it in Castorama for 57 rubles. mounting box for the case of the future device.


I drew a printed circuit board in the program Sprint-Layout 6.0.

He printed on an inkjet printer on plain paper mirror, then glued to a piece of fiberglass, suitable sizes. Previously fiberglass was treated with fine sandpaper with detergent Seth. With a Ø1.0 mm drill, I drilled holes for parts and technological holes and washed paper off with warm water.

He drew a printed circuit board with a special marker. Then he placed the board in a solution of ferric chloride for half an hour.

Chlorine iron is difficult to wash off from the hands, so I made a kind of pen from masking tape. Acetone washed off the paint. I drilled the technological holes to the required diameter and soldered the board conductors with a soldering iron. I finished with the board.



The extreme parts of the grounding bar, where there are perpendicular threaded holes for mounting, came up as contactors. I sawed two corners to fix the board to the radiator. The radiator did not fit literally 2 mm into the case. With a drill I cut from two sides on the shelf. With an area of ​​230 square meters / mm, this is not critical.



I removed tides from the bottom of the mounting box with a drill that only interfered.

I fixed a board to the radiator at two corners, and I calculated so that the indicator LEDs could exit through the cover. The triac was mounted on a radiator through paste KPT-8. The base 2 of the triac is connected to the cooling pad, so the contact of the radiator with the input / output contactors is fraught with a short circuit, as well as with the conductors on the board.

Then soldered the remaining parts. Instead of a 20 μF × 25 V capacitor (I just didn’t have it), I put two 10 μF × 50 V in parallel. I soldered the indicator chains so that the LEDs slightly went outside through pre-drilled holes in the cover.

R3 set the average value of the protection threshold. I connected the LATR and the multimeter and made a more fine-tuning. R5 replaced with 10 ohms for the stability of the triac.

I did not have a 28k by 2W R resistor for the output chain with a red LED. I put two in parallel at 56k per 1 watts. The input circuit with a green LED does not affect the operation of the circuit, therefore it is not shown in the circuit.

At a voltage of 180–250 V, both LEDs light up. When the voltage rises to 255 V, the triac turns off the phase (only one green LED is lit). The triac again applies the phase to the load when the voltage drops to about 235-240 V.


Dimensions of the structure are 60 x 90 x 90 mm. All openings in the mounting box have been specially opened to improve circuit cooling. Spent on the device a little more than 100 rubles, but several days of work. I think it's worth it!
8.6
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207 comments
maxi.mus,
The circuit has a lot of critical operating modes, even without load the resistor, zener diode and diode will be very hot. I can advise you to reconsider the circuit with another option for controlling the triac, as well as controlling the voltage to both maximum and minimum. Sometimes low voltage also brings a lot of trouble.
ino53, it became interesting to myself.)) It turns out that both are different.)) Here is what the PUE says:
"2.4.55. ...
The distance from the SIP and insulated wires to the surface of the earth on the branches to the input should be at least 2.5 m.
The distance from bare wires to the ground at the branches to the bushings shall be at least 2.75 m. "
And the input can not be lower. ;)
Ivan_Pokhmelev,
... th ....

Not worth it, now it’s clear where I have wires brains overwhelmed :-)
Bags, there will be no "condenser effect" on your wiring, the capacity of your network is most likely on the order of nanofarad units.

Quote: ino53
not for nothing that the "gander" put one and a half meters.
So you mean entering the house? I wrote about the input to the counter, but we talked about it. And the air input into the house is normalized, I don’t remember exactly, whether it is not lower than 2.5 m, or 2.75 m. We need to look at the PUE.
Quote: Ivan_Pokhmelev
ino53is not standardized.

It used to be that it was probably not without reason that the "gander" put a meter and a half.
Ivan_Pokhmelev,
Here, probably you are right, what I set to 30. House 5 meters from the line. And 200 meters is just the wiring inside the house. The effect of the capacitor perhaps adds to its contribution. When remaking everything I will consider.
Quote: Bags
The potential was something around 12-16 volts between the fence and zero.
Just in case, check if this is a tip: connect a resistor a few kilograms parallel to the tester's input.
But this is most likely not the case: the neutral wire after the RCD and the ground wire should not be connected to each other, therefore, for the RCD, do not care about the voltage on the ground wire until a leak occurs somewhere between these wires.
Quote: Bags
Ouzo on 30 ma.
For the house (if it is not a hut for 20 squares), the introductory fire protection RCD should be 300 mA, then to sockets and other, except lighting, an RCD of 30 mA, if there is a bathroom or shower, then for the wiring of them an RCD of 10 mA .
Quote: Bags
the length of the wires is about 200 meters,
From the counter to the fence?
ino53is not standardized.
Ivan_Pokhmelev,
Then measured. The potential was something around 12-16 volts between the fence and zero. Ouzo on 30 ma. I will be in the village only after 2-3 weeks, I can repeat the measurements. A metal tire inside a plastic box.
Quote: Ivan_Pokhmelev

ino53, according to clause 1.5.29 of the PUE, the height from the floor to the meter clamp box should be in the range of 0.8-1.7 m. A height of less than 0.8 m, but not less than 0.4 m, is allowed.

And the height of the input?
Bags, the voltage on the fence did not measure? Regarding the pin driven into the ground at a distance of several meters from the fence or relative to the neutral wire.
What current is your input RCD?
Is the zero bus isolated from the chassis?

ino53, according to clause 1.5.29 of the PUE, the height from the floor to the meter clamp box should be in the range of 0.8-1.7 m. A height of less than 0.8 m, but not less than 0.4 m, is allowed.
The whole conversation started from here:

Quote: maxi.mus
I now have a machine on the pole (near the counter) that I turn off for the winter (you have to climb the stairs, but what to do).
Bags, about commas and periods never heard? I honestly tried to read you, but on the fourth line, patience ran out. Well, it’s impossible to get through the stream of consciousness! ((
Valery,
The counter on a pole outside the house is a new whim of the energy company, and they hang it below us to check the readings and seals without entering the house, and the alteration was usually started at our expense, but according to my father’s advice, a single-phase and several automatic machines were originally planned and planned, convinced the seller by showing the documentation with connection options, KZ is definitely not measured by different testers, the megometer just did not try,and tried to connect only one channel, the result is the same, 3 independent lines so that they do the same when the two are completely turned off doesn’t happen, okay, forget that while I’m busy building a new bath, I’ll enter 3 phases and everything will be assembled on other units and machines,
Valery,
No, in the PUE (or as it is now called) something is written about 2.5 meters. Although, perhaps, I confuse with something ...
ino53,
So what am I talking about !!! I'm on the street too. But at eye level. And why did a man hang him on a pole and climb the stairs to him ???

pogranec,
Well, with us - somewhere the same ... Eight or ten years ago, probably ... All modern meters have a remote reading function. (I mean, not even those who "report" themselves to the subscription service. But it’s clean, take readings from ten meters away. Just like, for example, read the readings of heat meters from batteries without going into apartment)). So they are preparing a base for this.
Valery,
And why the counter on the pole?
- Counters on poles in Russia began to be installed about 8 years ago, in the private sector. Both ordinary and so-called “smart meters”, which transmit data directly to the electrical organization, and, through a remote reader, to the consumer. Then many smarts broke, and only counters remained. Well, somewhere around 1 - 1.5 years I began to notice the counters directly on the houses, from the side of the street.
Three years later, when the verification period is suitable, and they will probably force me.
Valery,
And why high, I hooked so that there would be enough stools.
Quote: ino53
Valery,
We were forced to do so at the cottage. True, everyone has their own keys to the boxes, so the lumpy physical meaning of this is unclear.

I also somehow do not understand why on a pillar ???
In our case, when washing private houses and summer cottages, according to current rules, a box with an introductory machine and a meter should be on the street. At the same time - it’s not in the yard, but always from the outside of the fence.))) (This is a clear meaning)). But not on the pillar! Why raise the post?
Valery,
And why the counter on the pole?
Well, I understand that
climb the stairs
xaxa
Valery,
We were forced to do so at the cottage. True, everyone has their own keys to the boxes, so the lumpy physical meaning of this is unclear.
Quote: maxi.mus
I now have a machine on a pole (near the counter) that I turn off for the winter (I have to climb the stairs, but what can I do).

And why the counter on the pole?

Bags,
You can not use a three-phase DIF instead of three single-phase. Like an automaton, it will work. Like an RCD - no!
What do you actually observe ...
But it is quite possible that this is not the case. Correctly noted above - look for a ground fault. It is not the voltage that needs to be "caught" there, but the resistance between them to be measured.
R555,
Now many owners of cottages make such wiring "retro", only the isolation is now different (and the price tag ...) but about the old one: yes, I came across black and white on insulators 20-25 years ago in post-war two-story buildings. And with dry insulation.
Bags, I repeat once again, if your father really was a professional electrician, he would have ripped your hands off for the three "phase" UZO terminals parallel to the input. And for wiring after an RCD from three outlets to different consumers, you need to put these severed hands in the ass. USE ONLY ONE GROUP, NOT THREE CONNECTED !!! TERMINALS FOR CONNECTING SECOND AND THIRD PHASES MUST BE EMPTY! SO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH DO YOU DO IT ALL ???

Bagsyou described like that. And they don’t do that. And if your father does not see such a wild jamb, then he is never an electrician.
Ivan_Pokhmelev,
Did I understand incomprehensibly that the zero came out from the counter and the phase that goes into the 3-phase ouzo looks like 4 paired automata, one of them is pure for zero, 3 phase inputs they are all connected, from the consumers the zeros come and are connected to the zero bus which is connected to zero on narrowly the earth is connected on the second bus which is now connected to the consumer phases to the inputs with 3 pcs of Uzo, all 4 tabs were connected by a bracket for simultaneous shutdown, I removed it, when a short circuit on one of the lines disconnects one of the machines, when you click on the test it happened it turns off all the machines at the same time, the ground of all consumers converges in the meter and is not connected anywhere but it’s wrong, when you try to connect with an iron hammered fence, all the machines are turned off (all consumers are unplugged, the light is also turned off), it doesn’t turn on until it breaks the earth from the fence, it has been working in this mode for several years already, if they make me want to rearrange the meter on the street, I would like to make the earth normal, part of the fence is under the incoming air 3-phase line, a hundred meters 3 meters from the fence b pillars on line 5 wires 3 and the upper zero phase - probably Protector
Bags, since you have a separate wire that you consider grounding, it should not be connected to zero.
Check to see if there is a short circuit somewhere in the wiring, for example, in a short circuit socket, between the ground and the protective earth.
Bags, you describe the situation somehow muddy. ((
Where do you connect grounding to the neutral wire? Before or after RCD?
2Dem,
I assembled the grounding on a separate bus, I’m not connected to the ouzo, I saw a connection diagram to some kind of ouzo, it seems like you can connect one phase to the input, although I will not say about this model, it’s zero at zero, the earth turns out now is hanging in the air there is not zero I don’t have a phase, I don’t have to go about the hands right away, my hands are in place, and my father worked as a professional electrician and he shrugs his hands, that’s what we didn’t try to change ouzo itself, I’m wondering if this ouzo is guilty, to clarify on the earth bus what is about zero what about the phase when The test shows about 2-5 volts for alternating grounding, but it seems to me to be just leads, the length of the wires is about 200 meters, I repeat at this moment there is no grounding wire in the air, but when you try to connect the ground to a metal fence, a spark breaks and the true part is cut down the fence is not far from the air line, maybe this is the case? I tried to connect there temporarily, only for verification, maybe I should immediately drive separately?
Bags, the problem is in the hands. Disassemble everything you have done and do as expected. One phase is one input, not all three. Zero - through zero. Grounding in the RCD should not be at all.
Good afternoon, comments are gone, apparently everyone is still celebrating. I wanted to add about the RCD in the village, the som laid inside the house wiring with a ground wire using the RCD, I don’t remember the manufacturer’s company, but this is a 3 phase thing with 4 pairs of terminals, so I don’t know why but when connected to the ground (I threw the wire to the welded-in iron fence into the ground) a spark breaks through me and knocks everything out, although I tried to turn it off, even unscrewed all the lamps, maybe it connected wrong? RCD with combined machines. Instead of phase 3, I connected only one to all phase inputs, and scattered the output to consumers. Zero, as it should be on a separate input and on a separate bus, assembled the ground, removed the connecting strip and now the automatic circuit breakers on the KZ work separately, the test switches off all at once, apparently inside it is also connected somehow, repeated wire tapping didn’t give anything, while it spat on everything, especially since electricians advise to rearrange the meter on the street and leave the showdown with the phenomenon for after, but the intrigue is intriguing or it’s just that I got caught
I doobrazlivaet with NG !!!
We are naughty))))))
in this (after 3 min) year of all parvem!
Dmitrij
that's right
Well, the president congratulated me on TV. All techies with the coming 2020! All good, health, good mood, and most importantly, good luck in all your plans, ideas and undertakings! friends drinks
Yes, few will reach presidential congratulations!!!


that's right xaxa
Khatul Madan
Today, 18:56 ... It's time to not even cut salads, but to sit down at the table.
Yes, few will reach the presidential congratulations !!! xaxa drinks
ino53
box "Bile Mitzne"
"Feteasca", "Bile Mitzne" ... Where does youth go? It seems like it was so recently ... friends drinks goodgood
Early at the table. An hour later I’ll go barbecue
Today everything is forgiven, I'm generally surprised that someone is present on the site. It's time to not even cut salads, but to sit down at the table.
Shame on my gray head! O my tailed fellow, perform the ritual act of killing before me!
10 kW is 5 A, minuscule.
Actually, it's 50 A.
ino53 Men have the most beloved wife X .. Ukranka
I don't want to fall on her operatin table
He will cut off the military; he lives in ours.
After some of the lectures in their educational program (BPI), they decided to check how all the same, alcohol affects the electrical conductivity of the body. Took up the TL-4 (without the letter M), the box "Bile Mitzne" 19 * 3, and started. They stopped filling the schedule after 15 minutes, when the last one fell - I don’t know, but there was nothing to hangover the next day.
10 kW is 5 A, minuscule.
Author
I now have a machine on a pole (near the counter) that I turn off for the winter (I have to climb the stairs, but what can I do).
Quote: maxi.mus
How does it not occur to you that with a summer house this is not so important?
If the summer cottage - a tool shed and fire breaks to the neighbors are met - do whatever you want. If people will be in this building for any length of time - be so kind as to comply with the requirements of the EMP.
Quote: maxi.mus
And the RCD is at your discretion.

At the discretion - only a specific brand of RCD. RCD is mandatory.
Author
I listened to you, and was amazed. You talk about zero tires and grounding. How does it not occur to you that with a summer house this is not so important? Grounding is most suitable for a summer residence. And the RCD is at your discretion.
And they had one virtue. Cheapness and speed of construction. All the rest are flaws. In the summer, the apartment is heated, and in winter, the batter,
This all applies to old houses ... (And then, now they are everywhere "thermo-furred", painted and completed attics ...)
And now we also have the panels riveted and riveted. But the quality is already on top. The outer panels are a "thick" sandwich with several layers of expanded polystyrene. Particular attention is paid to the quality of the joints. (The wife is an “engineer” in the quality department. So I know)))). And now we ourselves live in such an apartment. Soundproofing, of course, is so-so ... But even in the brick you can hear the piano behind the wall.))). Of course, you won’t hear any conversations, or a TV in any way ... But, if something falls on the floor from above, you can hear it. I think this is a minus of all the "birdhouses"))))
I'm talking about such modern ones:










What is characteristic, the batteries in them, all the same, are cast-iron !!! )))))
Because yesterday I wanted to congratulate my neighbor (he is an energy engineer, the boss of something, someone there). But he did not get through, did not reach.
Strange, he's 12 years old, how to quit drinking
!!!!! xaxa drinks


And this one pierced !!!! If we stopped by him in the evening, we would have seen him in a board drunk in the company of the same main power engineers !!! And this time, he would have accepted congratulations !.))))
Do you really not notice that hostile special services have overlaid you from all sides !!!
Attention!!! Akhtung !!! Alarm !!!
And in our city a long time ago launched a plant of reinforced concrete products (reinforced concrete products). How many of them are now, not interested in a long time, but I think that not one. And this concrete goods stamped slabs for panel houses. Therefore, whole microdistricts were erected with tremendous speed, the slabs were delivered to the construction site even “hot” from this plant. The plates have already been wired up. Brick houses in the city in the 70s were built little, mostly panel. And they had one virtue. Cheapness and speed of construction. All the rest are flaws. In the summer, the apartment heats up, and in winter, the batter, heating with bad batteries (as I showed in the photo) does not warm up. The soundproofing is bad, you can hear it without any bugs, as your neighbor and his wife are talking about. I recalled the words from the song by A. Novikov, "He even knew that cotton wool is the corset, the neighbor Klavdia Petrovna puts ..." This is probably about such houses. And when their daughter began to play the piano "dog waltz" and 20 times in a row, and all with errors xaxa I wanted to run away from the apartment.
Now I live in the same neighborhood, but the house is younger, brick, pipes (except heating) are plastic, warm, although the batteries are the same as in the old apartment. There was an office in the house itself, a children's clinic adjoins the house, near a stadium, a market, a bunch of shops. And, importantly, everyone and everyone around is familiar. There was an option to buy a new apartment, but not in the city itself, near a military training ground, you do not know anyone - refused.

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