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Easy and safe starting of the motor with a welding inverter

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Everything happens in life, so it’s good to know everything in order to get out of a difficult situation. Ahead is winter, which means that many will have problems starting the engine. Even if the battery is new, it costs nothing to land due to inexperience, rotating the frozen motor. And to charge the battery for a long time, and not everyone can have a charger at all.


I will show you how to safely start a DC motor. In mine there is no function to start the engine, and the inverter outputs about 65V at the output, the maximum current is 250A.

How much starter is eating?
When working in harsh conditions (winter), the starter consumes around 150-200A, we are talking about modern starters on modern cars. My old KATEK easily eats 250-300A.

The welding machine we produce 250A, this is a current limit. Thanks to this limitation, you will not burn the starter at any voltage, even at 220V. Of course, it is better to increase the current gradually, 250A for a modern starter is already a lot, it is better to start with 100A.

Generally speaking, the inverter and starter are a great company.

Onboard network
The vehicle’s on-board network operates from a voltage of no higher than 17-20V, usually at 20V bulbs and other devices already burn out. Usually in the on-board network of the order of 13-13.5V (it all depends on the machine).

If you give 65V to the on-board network from the welding inverter, everything that was included in the network will burn for you in an instant. And the ignition coil, the generator relay, the dashboard, the gas tank sensor will be included in the network, the retractor of the starter will also suffer.

Generally speaking - the inverter and the on-board network are atomic bomb, the car, at best, will not burn down completely!

Way out:
To start the motor from the inverter, without breaking anything, the on-board network must be connected to the battery, it can be sunken in trash, you need 9, 8, or even less volts, the most important thing is that the battery pulls the retractor starter, and enough for a spark. Then the generator will work, and the voltage of the on-board network will be normal.

Well, at the power input of the starter, we feed our bold "+" from the welding inverter, DO NOT FORGET TO DISABLE THE BORTNET. We sit in the lounge and calmly start the key. Do not forget about safetyso that the inverter does not fall off after starting, and the circuit is not shorted!





On an old VAZ 21-classic, the wiring system is easily disconnected from the main power wire that goes to the starter. I made a separate terminal from the wire and separately applied “+” from the battery to the onboard network.

Fashionable youtube way to start from the welder. DO NOT REPEAT!!!
The bottom line is that the power from the inverter is supplied directly to the dead battery, as a result, the voltage sags and the engine can be started. But keep in mind that such a method is unpredictable, at any time the contact between the battery may be broken and your clunker will burn to hell!


And it will be with your flight system!


How to “push” a battery with an inverter?
If you need to recharge the battery so that it at least pulls the retractor, connect the battery through the electrolyzer, which will limit the current. I do not recommend connecting the battery directly to the welder, you can kill the inverter and so on.
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88 comments
Author +1
Reply To quote A complaint
Guys, are you all serious?)) No, the inverter only feeds the starter, the wiring system supplies the dead battery.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Gentlemen, someone will guess to see the current-voltage characteristic of the inverter (like any other DC arc welding machine), then the dispute will stop. The car starts and from start up-charger, and he has much less current. But will the battery like even a short-term, but charging current, several tens of times higher than the recommended 0.1C? After all, as I understand it, the inverter is connected directly to the battery terminals?
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes, the inverter has a current limit of 250A, so the voltage does not play any role. What are you arguing about? Kindergarten

So I say that when the consumed current "rests" against the released 250 A (the starter should have more), the cork will sag thoroughly at the inverter output ...
But Korolev is sure that the voltage there will be much greater ... And, therefore, the starter (according to the "paper laws"))))) It will draw out more current than from the battery.)))) Only now, WHERE FROM WHERE ???? This bottle has a thinner neck!)))). Neither more water will flow from it (current))), nor faster (voltage)
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Well, excuse me ... Do you REALLY not understand? Or do not want to understand ?? Or just, as the youth say, “troll”? xaxa
I asked not “they will give?” But “capable?”)))) (Of course, you can do “literary studies” and say that I did not write the word “maximum”.)))). But this was already clear from the same context.))) Nke already talked about connecting the starter, but about what current these two sources are ABLE for ...))))
That is, you categorically insist that the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station is not capable of producing at the same voltage a greater current than the battery ???? )))))
Okay ... Let me "translate" you.
The opponent claims that if you connect the starter to a current source that is capable of delivering more current, then the contacts (“dimes”) will burn. I explain that you can connect to anything! The current that the starter pulls on itself will be the same! And jokingly I bring as such a source of hydroelectric power station.
P.S. At the same time, he is also mistaken in the strength of the current to which these sources are capable. A battery is capable of delivering significantly more than an inverter.
P.P.S. Naturally, we are talking about approximately the same voltage. Because, under such a load as the starter, the "relatively weak" inverter "sags" volts to 15 !!
Everything that Dmitry described is suitable only for a small gasoline car. I am sure that if you connect, for example, to the starter of the old diesel "hundred parts", the inverter will immediately "go into defense." Because the battery with a starting current of 450 Amperes doesn’t do much there ... Checked.
Author +1
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes, the inverter has a current limit of 250A, so the voltage does not play any role. What are you arguing about? Kindergarten
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Valery Valery, I am sincerely sorry that we cannot understand each other! On your:
Therefore, I am sure that at the output of the hydroelectric power station there will be sockets like 10 kilovolts, and 12 volts!)))) Here's the last one and turn)))).
I asked:
And how does this inclusion differ from connecting to a battery, and where does the Sayano-Shushensk hydroelectric power station?
You answer a question with a question:
That is, you insist that both the battery and the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station are able to give the SAME CURRENT ????
Yes, I strongly insist that with the same voltage (12V) and the same load (starter)
and the battery, and the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station are able to give the SAME CURRENT !!!
But when the voltage at the inverter output is 25-60V, the starter will “pull” a slightly higher current, in this I trust Georg Simon Ohm and my own practical experience more, and I never agree that
Yes, plug in. Are you a starter though directly to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - it will “pull out” the current exactly as much as it draws from the battery (charged). No more, no less !!!
! Sorry ... scratch
0
Reply To quote A complaint
about .... ah, okay ... scratch smiles smile
0
Reply To quote A complaint
About TO-O-O-OK !!!
The strings are about the same.
0
Reply To quote A complaint
And how does this inclusion differ from connecting to a battery, and where does the Sayano-Shushensk hydroelectric power station? scratch

That is, you insist that both the battery and the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station are able to give the SAME CURRENT ???? ( scare ireful
Once again I will explain: gave an example of a source of large "starting currents" !!!!
We say PRO CURRENT !!!
PRO CURRENT
PRO CURRENT
PRO CURRENT!
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Did I somehow distort the meaning of your statement?

Not. But, in the context chain, its meaning looks different:
what happens when a welded electrode comes into contact with a welded part?
here you will have the same thing between the tops of the starter at the time of starting the engine ...

Pyataks and not designed for such currents

Yes, do you connect the starter even directly to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - it will “pull out” the current exactly as much as it draws from the battery (charged). No more, no less !!!
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Valery
I argued about the current! And not about the voltage !!!
I poorly imagine a current without voltage!
From the context, you can jerk any time
Did I somehow distort the meaning of your statement?
the current in the circuit depends on the load resistance !!! ... Yes, plug in. Are you even a starter directly to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - it will “pull out” the current exactly as much as it draws from the battery (charged). No more, no less !!!
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Valery
Therefore, I am sure that at the output of the hydroelectric power station there will be sockets of both 10 kilovolts and 12 volts!
I had to work in the energy sector, I have not seen such outlets at any of the substations!
and 12 volts!)))) That's the last and turn on
And how does this inclusion differ from connecting to a battery, and where does the Sayano-Shushensk hydroelectric power station? scratch
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Well ... From the context you can jerk any time)))). I argued about the current! And not about the voltage !!! (That is why I wrote about the fact that many confuse these two concepts.)
And I still claim that if you connect the starter to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station, it will draw as much current as it does from the battery!)))))
(I think turbine generators do not immediately generate the necessary voltage)))). Therefore, I am sure that at the output of the hydroelectric power station there will be sockets of both 10 kilovolts and 12 volts!)))) Here's the last and turn it on)))).
And I assure you, the currents will be the same! ))))))))
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Valery
Do not agree that the "five-copeck coins" will not find an arc ???
I didn’t say a word about the Pyataks or the arc, I don’t agree (I think that Georg Simon Om too) with your statement:
the current in the circuit depends on the load resistance !!! ... Yes, do you connect the starter even directly to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - it will “pull out” the current exactly as much as it draws from the battery (charged). No more, no less !!!
yahoo
0
Reply To quote A complaint
I do not remember. But I remember that 70 Volts in mine is supplied by an impulse for igniting the arc and immediately drops (the so-called “Quick Start” system). And without it, it is much smaller there! For the motor, even 60 volts is not critical, given that it will "sag" harder than from the welding arc.A diesel starter, even a passenger car, has many times more currents than a welding machine.
And in general, distracted. The main theme was precisely that I was not aware that if the current source is intended for welding, then where do not connect it - there will be a welding arc at the moment of switching on!
Do not agree that the "five-copeck coins" will not find an arc ???
Or with the fact that the starter consumes more than the electrode? )))))))
0
Reply To quote A complaint
And for the starter, the voltage difference between the battery and the inverter - do not care
Only now, it was a long time ago, and then she began to study at school Ohm's law for the chain section
I will not be categorical, but as far as I remember, the inverter idle 60v, decreasing to 23 during welding, no? scratch
0
Reply To quote A complaint
So we say in the context of this publication ... The onboard network is disconnected. And for the starter, the voltage difference between the battery and the inverter does not care.)))
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Dmitrij
I will light the LED 3V from 220V
So we have all the home appliances running on 220V! scratch
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
I will light the LED 3V from 220V
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Valery
the current in the circuit depends on the load resistance !!! ... Yes, do you connect the starter even directly to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - it will “pull out” the current exactly as much as it draws from the battery (charged). No more, no less !!!
Valery, I went to school a long time ago, but I remember that Georg Simon Om something else there and about the voltage drilled! scratch
Author +1
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes, my Chinese. But besides the wires I am satisfied. Four with our killed network without tension, and they say 5 can. But to me and 3 with a head
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes here it is Link

Something I did not open

Cheto is listed as discontinued.

Not surprising. I bought it somewhere in 2005, maybe 2006.
Perhaps you came across a “Chinese under Gerard”, and not a branded one ... Or, as an option - my “one of the first”, and yours - already “cheapened”))))
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
I saw this nonsense on YouTube, and did not understand why? Without chalk it will be the same
0
Reply To quote A complaint
I know what to make the plaster from, but I won’t say it yet))

And don’t ... We made of clerical glue with chalk (whitewash). ))))
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes here he is Link

Cheto is listed as discontinued.
+1
Reply To quote A complaint
It's not about the coating. Copper will simply burn in air at such temperatures! Therefore, fusible metals are cooked only in a gaseous medium! So that there was no oxygen!
0
Reply To quote A complaint
Only shit wires, copper-plated aluminum. The mass is probably already cut in half. But it can be replaced with copper if desired

It’s strange. I have wires - 25 copper! Great ones. Soft. I changed the mass. (The clothespin itself). At the same time, I think back to put the old after repair. Because I changed due to the fact that the spring from the heatings "sat down", and there was no time to repair it - it popped in, bought a new one and threw it over. But in the standard, the grip itself is more powerful, and the copper nickels are wider and stronger. And another landing under the wire there is copper with brass screws and sponges with a powerful wicker busbar connected to each other.
And in the newfound - a bit of copper on the goblets and more and more flimsy ...
Are you the Gerard? Because with mine only a mask, a hammer and a brush went "on vybros". I mean, they were put in a kit "to be")))). Everything else - the inverter itself, wires, holder, mass - very high quality ... Fortunately, for more than ten years it has been serving faithfully.
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
I have just one, they are the same)) Only shit wires, copper-plated aluminum. The mass is probably already cut in half. But it can be replaced with copper if desired
+1
Reply To quote A complaint
And if, "I do not work for them"? ))) ... Well, I once bought a Gerard-250 for 430 euros. I was happy, I already bounced that I found it "for a penny" (This was when the inverter was considered a "foreign miracle")))). "Sixty" - the battery then costs 50 euros ....Now they (both the inverter and the battery) cost about the same, I think)))) Because "there’s no reason to cook something for the house every year" it makes no sense to buy a sophisticated device .. But the batteries were worth it - so, they are worth it)) )
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
Just yesterday I conducted experiments about “soldering” with wire by “welding”))) I clamped a thin copper wire (probably 2 mm) into the electrode holder. An arc sometimes turns out if you sharpen the wire, but if there is a drop, you can’t ignite the arc in any way.
The thin end melts, plasma (arc) is obtained from the hot copper. But it is very unstable, quickly goes out, and most likely goes out by the fact that the cross-section of the wire at the end is aligned. But if you make a coating that will support the "plasma", maybe it will work out? I know what to make the plaster from, but I won’t say it yet))
+1
Reply To quote A complaint
The people ... You all, seriously, did not study at school ??? Simply, most people, as I look, do not understand what "current" is, what is "voltage" and how does it differ from "current strength" ...
Yes, you finally remember one simple thing: the current in the circuit depends on the load resistance !!! Yes, do you connect the starter even directly to the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - it will “pull out” the current exactly as much as it draws from the battery (charged). No more, no less !!!
what happens when a welded electrode comes into contact with a welded part?

What happens ??? I’ll tell you if it’s not clear!
A contact appears with a relatively low resistance. Since no other load is sequentially connected in this circuit, we have an “almost short circuit”. (If, suddenly, you don’t know, then it is called “short” because there is no noticeable load in the circuit! We give the current a “short free path” and charged particles rush there with all their might, the whole crowd. Yes, in such a crowd that the road doesn’t stand it, usually.))))
I wrote "nearly KZ "because at the point of contact the resistance is still higher than in the cross section of copper wires! Because of the smaller diameter, very weak contact and" not copper "electrodes and the workpiece)))). Therefore, there arises an electric arc ...
And what happens at the time of joining the "pyataks" ??? Wide copper (!!) platforms sharply and strongly (!!) are pressed against each other !!! The resistance of their contact is not much different from the resistance of the cross section of the wires (this is the time!), And the circuit has a load - the starter (it's two!). And therefore, the current will be "spent not on heating the contact place of the nickels, but on the operation of the starter ...
And this ... If Cho (and suddenly, you don’t know that!) - the main characteristic of the starting battery is not its capacity (as most ordinary people who don’t understand what current is thinking), but its starting current! That is, the value of the current strength that he can give out at a time, without harm to himself! (That is, how abruptly he is able to spin a frozen motor with thickened oil! This is more important than turning it on for a long time, but at a high capacity, but with a low PT value.)))).
So, since you don’t understand anything at all, look at this figure on your battery! And then - on your inverter ...)))). You will be surprised - at the battery it is much bigger and bigger !!!! If you do not believe it, connect the welding wires briefly to a charged battery! He will cook, not worse than the inverter !!! (True, it will die quickly, because the plates will not withstand the ACROSS current drops. But it will not work smoothly to search for the arc)))
P.S. Once upon a time, I explained exactly the same, in the same words to my daughter. Only now, it was a long time ago, and then she began to study Ohm's law for a section of the circuit at school. So I asked for clarification ...
Sorry .... Uhh ... Are you a teenage girl too? ))). Because at the age of 17-18 my daughter already knew and understood this !!! And everyone who studied at school should also understand this ...
Author +1
Reply To quote A complaint
The electrode is coated, which creates a welding arc. Pyataks and not designed for such currents
d 0
Reply To quote A complaint
what happens when a welded electrode comes into contact with a welded part?
here you will have the same thing between the tops of the starter at the time of starting the engine ...

started a couple of times and drove dimes in the starter to change?
not at all.
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
And what will become of your normal inverter?)) I especially need your normal inverter to brew an ax, a shovel or cook a car))
Guest Alex 0
Reply To quote A complaint
Ideotism. A normal inverter (Fronius. Lincoln. EVM.) Costs like 10 - 15 batteries. Is it worth it? I work for them and not stupid experiments.
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
If needed push the battery with a welder

And by the way, this battery still works fine, despite the sheer discharge into the trash and charging by welding.
Author 0
Reply To quote A complaint
Yeah, only a shitty battery is like an inverter
Guest Alexander +1
Reply To quote A complaint
Yes, really ... Not everyone has a charger for the battery, but everyone has inverters. You need to monitor the battery, and if in doubt, it is advisable to buy a new one in the winter, and you won’t need dancing with a tambourine

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